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Poster: rastamon Date: Nov 11, 2008 8:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Grateful to the Veterens

Kudo's to the Vet's who served in our military. Here's a letter one Vietnam Vet wrote >>

Dear Angela,

This is by far the most difficult letter I shall ever write; what makes it so difficult is that you’ll be reading it in the unhappy event of my death. You’ve already learned of my death. I hope the news was broken to you gently. God, Angie, I didn’t want to die. I had so much to live for; you were my main reason for living. You’re a jewel; a treasure. Please don’t hate the war because it has taken me. I’m glad and proud that America has found me equal to the task of defending it. Vietnam isn’t a far off country in a remote corner of the world. It is Sagamore, Brooklyn, Honolulu, or any other part of the world where there are Americans. Vietnam is a test of the American spirit. I hope I have helped in a little way to pass the test. The press, the television screen, the magazines are filled with the images of young men burning their draft cards to demonstrate their courage. Their rejection is of the ancient law that a male fights to protect his own people in his own land. Does it take courage to flaunt the authorities and burn a draft card? Ask the men at Dak To, Con Thien, or Hill 875: they’ll tell you how much courage it takes.

Most people never think of their freedom; they never think much about breathing either, or blood circulating, except when these functions are checked by a doctor. Freedom like breathing and circulating blood is part of our being. Why must people take their freedom for granted? Why can’t they support the men, who are trying to protect their lifeblood-Freedom?

WE MUST DO the job that God set down for us. It’s up to every American to fight for the freedom we hold so dear. We must instruct the young in the ways of these great United States; we mustn’t let them take these freedoms for granted.

I want you to go on to live a full, rich, productive life, Angie. I want you to share your love with someone. You may meet another man and bring up a family. Please bring up your children to be proud Americans. Don’t worry about me, Honey; God must have a special place for soldiers. I’ve died as I’ve always hoped, protecting what I do hold so dear to my heart.

We will meet again in the future. We will. I’ll be waiting for you that day. I’ll be watching over you Angie; and if it’s possible to help you in some way, I will. Feel some relief with the knowledge that you’ve filled my short life with more happiness than most men know in a lifetime.

The inevitable? Well, the last one: I love you with all my heart; and all my love for you will survive into eternity.

Your Joey

Another post from my friend at FLOPPING ACES, with a tear in my eye I post this letter......

JOSEPH SANTORI

SGT - E5 - Army - Regular
101st Airborne Division
Length of service 2 years
His tour began on Jun 15, 1967
Casualty was on Apr 23, 1968
In THUA THIEN, SOUTH VIETNAM
Hostile, died of wounds, GROUND CASUALTY
GUN, SMALL ARMS FIRE
Body was recovered

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Poster: user unknown Date: Nov 11, 2008 9:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Grateful to the Veterens

Amen rasta, amen. All too often we fall into the rut of complacency and fail to notice the things around us that are truly important. Even with all the current troubles, the United States is still the best palce on the panet. We are blessed with more freedoms, and a standard of living that is virtually unmatched in the world today. That high standard, and all those freedoms were bought and paid for by valiant brotheres and sisters who fought, and sometimes died that thier fellow Americans might live a better life.

For most of the history of the United States returning service men and women were greeted as heroes, Sadly, there wasa time that those returning were reviled by some and simply neglected by many. though that travesty has been corrected, it is never a waste of time to thank a veteran. Afer all, without those brave souls we would not be able to enjoy the life we have. And as bad as life may sometimes seem, rest assured that we have it easier than most of the world's population.

To all who have served, are now serving and those who made the ultimate sacrifice, I say "Thank You!"

Peace to all who asssemble here...Namste

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Nov 12, 2008 10:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Grateful to the Veterens

UU -

I know your post was not to me specifically, but in response:

You are more than welcome.

I did what I did for 24 years because of folks like you - none of us ever went out and said "I want to do 9 deployments, miss the birth of my children, 5 of my first 6 anniversaries and spend 16 years, 11 months and 9 days of my life AT SEA" looking for thanks.

But when it does come along, it is heartwarming. Guys like you deserve thanks for the humanity to recognize and appreciate the sacrifice of others.

Be Well.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Nov 11, 2008 12:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Grateful to the Veterens

>>> fall into the rut of complacency and fail to notice the things around us that are truly important. Even with all the current troubles, the United States is still the best palce on the panet. We are blessed with more freedoms, and a standard of living that is virtually unmatched in the world today. That high standard, and all those freedoms were bought and paid for by valiant brotheres and sisters who fought, and sometimes died that thier fellow Americans might live a better life.>>>>

Where to begin. First stop the falg waving (there's still a speeling gap). The Republicans have not put country first and have failed soldiers by cutting benefits and starting wars on false pretenses. The US won't even supply proper armor for vehicles and soldiers!

The US is NOT necessarily the best place to live "virtually". There are countries that have are richer per person and have a higher quality of life. While it still is a nice country, the economy is built on the backs of the poor around the world and IN the US. Policies favorable to the rich have lead to a decreasing standard of living for the middle class and the poor.


>>>For most of the history of the United States returning service men and women were greeted as heroes, Sadly, there wasa time that those returning were reviled by some and simply neglected by many. though that travesty has been corrected, it is never a waste of time to thank a veteran. >>>

I won't be thanking people like Lindy England and other torturers unless they repent, and it is a waste of time to thank the unrepentant.

To claim that travesties in the treatment of servicemen is over is just not true. Surely you've hear of scandals at Walter Reed Army Medical Center and elsewhere? Even right wing groups like the RAND Corp talk about the staggering numbers who suffer from PTSD, which the Bush Admin has refused to treat.

I'll leave it to you and others to follow up, since there's no excuse now that information is so easy to find via the Google and the Internets' pipes.

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Poster: user unknown Date: Nov 11, 2008 3:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Grateful to the Veterens

Hey "spaced" since you decided to "attack" me, let me clarify my position.

"First stop the falg waving"

I am no Republican f-l-a-g waver. And there was no political intent in my post.

"All too often we fall into the rut of complacency and fail to notice the things around us that are truly important."

I was speaking of the myriad freedoms enjoyed here in the U.S. that are denied to many people of the world.

"The Republicans have not put country first and have failed soldiers by cutting benefits and starting wars on false pretenses. The US won't even supply proper armor for vehicles and soldiers!"

You will get no argument from me on the stated facts. However, with these facts being common knowledge there are still those that feel the call to serve. Some may serve for "wrong" reasons, but it is not really my place to judge that.

"While it still is a nice country, the economy is built on the backs of the poor around the world and IN the US."

Again, I cannot argue with your facts. I will add that the economic foundation of most countries is "the backs of the poor". Of course "poor" is a relative term. I have personally seen conditions that make" project housing" look mansion-like.

"To claim that travesties in the treatment of servicemen is over is just not true"

The travesty I spoke of may have occurred "before your time". Or you may have been one of the perpetrators of that travesty. I don't think there are many people meeting returning troops today spitting on them and welcoming them home with chants of "baby killer". At least publically, current returning soldiers seem to be met with open arms and thank you's. Admittedly they are not being treated properly by the "powers that be", but that is a different issue.

"It is never a waste of time to thank a veteran."

Especially on Veterans Day.

"It is a waste of time to thank the unrepentant."

Agreed. But would you withhold thanks from the deserving because of the actions of a few rogues?



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Poster: spacedface Date: Nov 11, 2008 5:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Grateful to the Veterens

>>>"It is a waste of time to thank the unrepentant."

Agreed. But would you withhold thanks from the deserving because of the actions of a few rogues?>>>

No. Mistakes are forgivable, or else I'm in real trouble.

The Vietnam War was no more valid than the latest war on Iraq. Both were built on lies, so I can see the trouble people would have being involved.

Veterans of such wars deserve care as much as ones of the other wars. I don't thing that the huge military budget really does them justice.

I went to the Vietnam War Memorial unaware of what it was when it first opened. You walk down gradually until you underground; seeing your reflection except where the names are is spooky enough without statues and glorifications. Very sobering.

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Nov 11, 2008 1:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Grateful to the Veterens

Spaced: In case you failed to notice, the letter was written by a soldier that gave his life in the Vietnam War.

Perhaps you didn't recognize that today is Veterans Day, not Armed Services day, nor Patriots Day. it's a day to remember the sacrifices of regular guys placed in extraordinary circumstances, likely not of their own doing. Most, even in today's war, went ahead and did their duty regardless of the personal cost or their personal political view...without complaint.

...and many even gave their last full measure of patriotism fighting in a disagreeable conflict believing that they were protecting your rights. I don't believe that the right to whine is what they were thinking about when they were taking hostile fire.


Wave that flag and don't argue, cause Mr. Earl googled it.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Nov 11, 2008 5:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Grateful to the Veterens

>>>Most, even in today's war, went ahead and did their duty regardless of the personal cost or their personal political view...without complaint. >>>

Well it is easy to commiserate with most of them. It might be difficult to not follow orders to commit genocide or crimes against humanity are manifestly unlawful, but obeying the law is paramount over unlawful immoral instruction.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Nov 11, 2008 2:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Grateful to the Veterens

I am not shocked at all. Disgusted, maybe, but shocked no...

I bet you $5 this gets ugly.

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Poster: BiscoBoy Date: Nov 11, 2008 3:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Grateful to the Veterens

Face, you really are an ignorant douche bag.
You are more concerned with fanning the flames, than finding the facts.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Nov 11, 2008 5:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Grateful to the Veterens

>>You are more concerned with fanning the flames, than finding the facts. >>

Burn in your rage if you wish, but I'd advise against it. Check the facts -- mouthing support the troops is different than actually supporting them.

And the phony accusation that Democrats would sttop funding the "troops" is silly, because funding is the duty of Congress and the President has no right to make soldiers fight without field support. It wouldn't work anyway.

Of course trying to use logic when talking to zombies doesn't work -- I just don't think you've all turned yet.

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Poster: roughyed85 Date: Nov 11, 2008 10:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Grateful to the Veterens

This could have been written by George Bush with it's obsessive repetition of the mantras "freedom" and "god". You don't have to fight in a foreign war to fight for freedom. (Bush certainly didn't!) Start at home in most countries.
I know what day it is. My grandfather, Royal Marine Fred Burke, died on HMS Gloucester helping to defeat Nazism. And a big part in that victory was played by US servicemen.

I remember it more for what it was originally about: the conscripted men slaughtered in the First World War. The English ruling-class made sure that entire town-loads of men were needlessly killed, including my great-grandfather, "owd" Fred Burke.
If you ever get the chance visit the war graves in Europe. The Canadian monument at Vimy Ridge is both sombre and harrowing. You completely forget about "god" or "freedom" as you're swept away by the fucking pointlessness of it all.

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Poster: midnight sun Date: Nov 11, 2008 3:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Grateful to the Veterens

couldn't agree with you more Roughyed, for me, this day will always be about those who have fallen...

originally named Armistice Day, to commemorate peace on earth after the Great War (it didn't have a number back then) "The war to end all wars."

lest we forget...

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Nov 11, 2008 4:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Grateful to the Veterens

Thank you William Tell.

Thank your veterans for all they have done, but as you said: Never ever let them be sacrificed again for the political whims and machinations of those who don't make the same sacrifice for them or their loved ones.

Our current war in Iraq could not be a more perfect example. Based on a lie, created by those who do not have to worry about their sons and daughters facing the danger, and being fought by brave men and women who deserve better.

And for those who would blindly throw the flag in your face for ever daring to question the "wisdom" of politcians who send others off to die not in true defense of the country, but for the worst of ulterior motives, remind them of the words of Samuel Johnson:

"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel."

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Nov 11, 2008 6:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Grateful to the Veterens



In a larger sense, we can not dedicate—we can not consecrate—we can not hallow—this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

I hereby place this wreath and award the LMA Peace Prize to William Tell as the final arbiter in this discussion. Long Live The Tell

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Poster: rastamon Date: Nov 12, 2008 5:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Grateful to the Veterens

William Tell, Veteren of Morgarten & the Duke of Earl, both fine men

just don't miss the apple

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Poster: jemajn2323 Date: Nov 12, 2008 4:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Grateful to the Veterens

I'm 49, never served. In the early 80's I met some guys who served on a gunboat. One time, Jerry stayed up all night with me pouring his heart out. We emptied a bottle and I was forever changed. I remember a Sergeant speaking to our tour of Fort Indian Town Gap, including young children, remarking that war and fighting is the last measure any soldier would really like to see happen. When my son joined the Marines in 2004, I read some things. The most striking ( im a naive late bloomer, sorry), was referring to a person not fighting for country, flag, or unit, but for each others ass. I find it too simple to seperate politics and love and honoring of vets, even knowing the beliefs of those vets may be way different from my own. Thank you for posting the "Address", I consider it the ultimate in words of this subject.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 12, 2008 6:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Grateful to the Veterens

That is absolutely the unifying theme of all the first hand accounts of all the wars I have read up on: individuals always finding valor, courage, bravery, and comradeship with their fellow servicemen. No matter how big the SNAFU, no matter how detached political abstraction from the reality on the ground, in country, you live and die for the guy next to you, and they in turn, and it's the only way you make it thru...

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Nov 12, 2008 10:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Grateful to the Veterens

From this vet to a parent of a servicemember.....

Next time you talk to your son, tell him thank you for his service.

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Poster: jemajn2323 Date: Nov 12, 2008 11:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Grateful to the Veterens

Done

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Poster: jemajn2323 Date: Nov 12, 2008 12:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Grateful to the Veterens

Please don't mix my jest with the intent:
Thank you for your service.
(I will be recieving a Gibbs like palm to the back of the head tonight at dinner)

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 11, 2008 2:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Grateful to the Veterens

Here is grateful to the vets: never, never forget that Viet Nam, for the US, was not EVER about freedom. Anyone that thinks it was needs to do some serious reading covering the 30s, 40s, and 50s; French colonialism; etc., etc. It was not a liberation; it was not even a civil war. It was a colonial war. We, I hate to say, were on the side of the colonialists that we sooo used to denigrate (fact check 1776).

Doesn't mean vets weren't as duped as the rest of us, nor do they warrant the wrath of the ones that knew the truth, but don't forget that in the name of freedom, they never should have been there. There were far better places to confront communism on the march in eastern Europe.

How many US wars have been about freedom? Count them. Mexican American? Spanish American? WWI? Any political systems changed after that great event?

What do we have--a few? WWII? OK, I'll grant that, but then, answer yourself: how free were the majority of the people of the northern hemisphere at its conclusion?

OK, enough; thank a Vet? Sure! But, never let your guard down, because you are the only ones to insure they never give their life in vain again.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Nov 11, 2008 2:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Grateful to the Veterens

No comment, here's my moment of silence.








.

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Poster: rastamon Date: Nov 11, 2008 2:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Grateful to the Veterens

,

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Poster: user unknown Date: Nov 11, 2008 4:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Grateful to the Veterens

rasta, you have my sincerest apology for turning your simple, yet poignant thread into a 3 ring circus.

Peace to all who assemble here.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 11, 2008 5:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Grateful to the Veterens

Hey UU, it's the least we can do for all vets: never forget, be forever viligant, beforever free in thought and discussion. The unexaminded life, of course, ain't worth living, and no one that gave their life for it would want it any other way.

Does it mean we shouldn't respect the dying wishes or the heart felt dreams of a warrior? Of course not.

But consider this: those that fell at Rourke's Drift, the 4000 or the 20, all believed they died in honor, and in defense of what they believed was the just cause. And so it is; honor them all, honor both sides, but when history allows the time to consider their contribution, God help us if we can't evaluate with reason and thought and decide anew in a time when we may do better.

To not give them this due is to truly have let them both died in vain.

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Poster: user unknown Date: Nov 11, 2008 6:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Grateful to the Veterens

Sir William. I agree with you about being ever vigilant. Perhaps if we are vigilant enough we can stop the atrocity known as war from ever happening again. My apology was prompted by the decidedly unattractive tangent rastamon's thread seemed to be veering onto.

Praise without reflection is empty praise. However, it seems my reflection may have fractured the looking glass.